By ABC's Marius Benson Posted Tue 3 Dec 2013
Photo: Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said President Obama was wrong to declare Iran's move to be an important first step. (AFP: Ronen Zvulun/Pool)
As news of progress in the Iran nuclear talks was breaking, Marius Benson asked a long-serving Israeli spokesman what seems an obvious question, but one that is almost never asked.
A few years ago I was on holidays in Iran. A great country to travel in, by the way, brimming with attractions both cultural and natural.
We were sitting in the back seat of the car, while in the front sat the driver and with him the guide - both young, Western-oriented Iranians wildly critical of then-President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Driving through desert landscape we noticed that large artillery guns, pointing skywards, were appearing with increasing frequency.
We were approaching the Natanz nuclear facility.
"I'll just take a few photos," I joked.
"No, no, no!" Our guide pivoted rapidly in his seat, waving his arm at me. His admirable sense of humour stopped short of possibly attracting the attention of Iran's security forces.
In the past couple of weeks the world has seen what looks like a definite change in Iran's position on its nuclear program, with Teheran offering a range of concessions in return for an easing of Western sanctions. That change under the new Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has been welcomed in Washington and more widely, but it has been met with dismissal and scepticism in Israel, as well as in some parts of the Arab world.
Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said President Obama was wrong to declare Iran's move to be an important first step. It was, he said, a mistake that would take the pressure off the Ayatollahs to abandon the nuclear program.
As the story was breaking I interviewed Mark Regev, Prime Minister Netanyahu's long-serving spokesman, a man who has been putting Israel's position to the world for many years. He re-stated the official position on Iran but then I put to him what seems an obvious question, but one that is almost never asked of Israel.
The elephant ignored in the room whenever Israel talks about Iran's potential to develop nuclear weapons is the fact that Israel has nuclear weapons and has had a nuclear arsenal for decades. Whenever an Israeli official is asked about them, which is almost never, they obfuscate. When I pressed a senior government official on the issue several years ago he finally declared that his government had a policy of "deliberate ambiguity" on the issue.
While Israel's nuclear arsenal is an official secret it is an open secret. Any number of analysts report on its likely extent and the location of nuclear facilities is known. One obvious indication of the existence of the weapons, and Israel's senstivity on the issue, was the jailing of Mordecai Vanunu, the former Israeli nuclear technician, who was imprisoned for nearly two decades, more than half of that in solitary, from the mid-1980s for revealing nuclear weapons secrets (and the secret was not that there were no nuclear weapons).
That Israel is reluctant to talk about the weapons is understandable; what is surprising is that the Israeli government is seldom asked about them. But that is what I did in the interview with Mark Regev - and this is how the interview went when I pointed to the thermo-nuclear elephant in the room:
MB: Mark Regev, can I ask you a question that some put in this context, which is, how can Israel demand that other countries, like Iran, in the Middle East, not have the prospect of any nuclear weapon when Israel itself has such a large nuclear arsenal?
MR: Well first of all there's been no change in the long-standing Israeli position not to be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons into the region.
MB: But you have nuclear weapons.
MR: No, we say specifically we will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the region. But more specifically I would say in answer to your question it is Iran which says Israel must be destroyed, not the other way around. It's Iran that calls Israel a cancer that must be removed. It's Iran which says Israel must be obliterated off the map.
MB: But back on the question of nuclear weapons, can I just clarify? When you say Israel's position is you won't be the first to introduce them, you have, what, 200-plus nuclear weapons now?
MR: No, no and I would say the following if you would allow me. The problem in the Middle East is not those countries that up till now have not joined the NPT, the Non Proliferation Treaty. The problem is exactly the opposite. It's those countries that have joined the NPT and have cheated and lied. And there's a whole group of them...
MB: Yeah, but...on the nuclear weapons issue, are you saying Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons?
MR: I'm answering your question, you're just not letting me finish the sentences.
MB: No, no, I like to directly get an answer to that - are you saying Israel does not have nuclear weapons?
MR: I'm saying Israel believes the 4 to1 talks about extending the NPT in the Middle East; one has to have an NPT that works. And you have in the Middle East four countries that signed the NPTand have cheated and the NPT has not been worth the paper it has been printed on.
MB: Sure but there's only one country in the Middle East which is generally known to have nuclear weapons. That's Israel.
MR: Israel has said - and I'll say it again - we will not be the first country in the Middle East to introduce nuclear weapons into the region. But if you'll allow me to complete the point. It's not just Gadaffi's Libya that cheated on the NPT, it's Assad’s Syria, it's Saddam Hussein's Iraq and now the Iranians. How can anyone come to Israel and say Israel should join the NPT when you have in the region the failure of this treaty. When you have consistent behaviour by Israel's enemies who've signed the NPT and then it's clear to everyone have broken it, have violated the agreement.
MB: Mark Regev thank you very much
MR: My pleasure sir.
Dancing with Israel's elephant - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
